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	<title>generalizations &#8211; Spencer Greenberg</title>
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		<title>Why do people often disagree about what&#8217;s immoral?</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2024/11/why-do-people-often-disagree-about-whats-immoral/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Nov 2024 15:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Essays]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[character]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[character judgments]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=4252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One reason people often disagree about what&#8217;s immoral is that they have different values. But there&#8217;s another important reason that I think few are aware of: there are at least four different kinds of moral evaluations of behavior, and it&#8217;s easy to conflate them. I argue that only one of these categories is actually sufficient [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">One reason people often disagree about what&#8217;s immoral is that they have different values. But there&#8217;s another important reason that I think few are aware of: there are at least four different kinds of moral evaluations of behavior, and it&#8217;s easy to conflate them. I argue that only one of these categories is actually sufficient grounds for judging an *action* as immoral, despite many people using the other categories to evaluate the morality of actions. I think they are making a subtle (and common) mistake when they do so.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">These four categories of moral reactions to behavior are:</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>1) Disgust:</strong> A visceral, emotional reaction to a behavior (which appears connected to the moral realm) that&#8217;s perceived as gross or disgusting.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Examples:</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• The disgust that most people would have at the idea of someone eating human flesh (even in a survival scenario where there is no other food available and a person has died of natural causes).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• The disgusted reaction that some (but not most) people have to the idea of gay sex. For instance, in one study I ran, about 40% of Americans said that imagining themselves having sex with someone of their own gender caused them &#8220;an emotion of disgust.&#8221;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">I think that people sometimes confuse the visceral emotion of disgust in response to a behavior with the behavior itself actually being immoral. Jonathan Haidt&#8217;s &#8220;moral dumbfounding&#8221; experiments support this point of view, where people insist a situation is immoral but can&#8217;t explain what is immoral about it (because the situations were carefully crafted not to violate moral principles and not to involve harm).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>2) Character judgments:</strong> when a behavior is seen as indicative of an unethical character, even in cases where the behavior itself has no actual effects.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Examples:</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• A person going to watch the daily operations of a slaughterhouse because they are intrigued by the idea of watching an animal die</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• A person who enjoys daydreaming about stealing items from people they know, even though they have never stolen before</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Cases like these provide evidence (some would argue, though it&#8217;s perhaps debatable) that a person has bad moral character, even if the behaviors themselves are not immoral. But people can jump to thinking an action is immoral because the sort of person that does it is more likely to be immoral, which I&#8217;d argue is, a mistake. While immoral actions are evidence of bad moral character, some actions that are evidence of bad moral character are not themselves immoral actions!</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>3) Heuristics: </strong>when a behavior is (collectively) judged as being &#8220;bad&#8221; because it <em>often </em>either causes harm, involves unethical behavior, or involves defecting on a social contract of some sort. These negative judgments can apply even if the behavior in question isn&#8217;t causing any harm in the specific situation where it&#8217;s being witnessed.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Examples:</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• Driving fifty miles an hour over the speed limit is generally categorized as bad behavior, but if someone did it because they were driving a dying person to the hospital, we&#8217;d say that was actually okay.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• The head of an organization dating one of their employees is generally viewed as bad behavior because it often leads to harm, but there are instances where many people would say that in that particular case, it was ethically okay, such as cases where the employee insistently initiated the relationship leading to the pair ending up happily married</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">It&#8217;s easy to think of violations of heuristics like these as being bad, but really what&#8217;s going on is that we&#8217;re socially agreeing they are bad because it&#8217;s a good and helpful rule of thumb to treat them that way. But special circumstances can make them fine. Because of this, it&#8217;s not unreasonable to judge actions as probably bad when they fall in these categories (when we lack other information), but we should be sensitive to the specific details of the case since they are not necessarily bad.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>4) Fundamentally unethical:</strong> a behavior that is, in and of itself, actually unethical according to at least some people&#8217;s deep ethical values. These actions don&#8217;t necessarily cause a feeling of disgust, and don&#8217;t merely appear bad because they are the sort of thing bad people do, and aren&#8217;t merely matching a heuristic about what&#8217;s bad &#8211; they are actually bad because of the precise action for some ethical values that people hold.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Examples:</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• Poisoning your toddler because you don&#8217;t want a child</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• Pretending you love someone when you don&#8217;t because you lack the courage to be honest</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• Secretly spying on someone so you can see them naked</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">• Violating a promise you swore to uphold merely because you&#8217;re feeling lazy</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">When we treat an action as fundamentally unethical merely because it produces a feeling of disgust, or because it&#8217;s the sort of thing that provides evidence of bad character, or only because we have a societal heuristic against it because actions in that category tend to be harmful, I think we&#8217;re making a mistake. These categories are easy to conflate with an action being immoral, but they aren&#8217;t the same thing.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><em>This piece was first written on November 16, 2024, and first appeared on my website on January 20, 2025.</em></p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"></p>
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		<item>
		<title>What&#8217;s helpful and what&#8217;s unhelpful about postmodernism, critical theory, and their current intellectual offshoots?</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2021/03/whats-helpful-and-whats-unhelpful-about-postmodernism-critical-theory-and-their-current-intellectual-offshoots/</link>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3500</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[More often than not, I find that postmodernist thought obscures rather than illuminates. But I also see useful elements in it. Here&#8217;s my very un-postmodern attempt to &#8220;steel man&#8221; (i.e., find the value in) ideas related to postmodernism: 1. Narratives Serve Power&#160;&#8211; powerful groups do tend to have a substantial influence on narratives, beliefs, and [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph">More often than not, I find that postmodernist thought obscures rather than illuminates. But I also see useful elements in it. Here&#8217;s my very un-postmodern attempt to &#8220;steel man&#8221; (i.e., find the value in) ideas related to postmodernism:</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>1. Narratives Serve Power&nbsp;</strong>&#8211; powerful groups do tend to have a substantial influence on narratives, beliefs, and what&#8217;s &#8220;normal.&#8221; Something &#8220;obvious&#8221; or &#8220;objective&#8221; or &#8220;a fact&#8221; may just (invisibly) be a part of the narrative you&#8217;re immersed in and subtly be serving those in power.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>2. Categories Bleed</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; just about any dichotomy or grouping will be leaky and imperfect (e.g., male/female, straight/gay). Some won&#8217;t fit any categorization, and there&#8217;s a subjective choice of where to draw boundaries. Yet we often treat categories as reality, forgetting their arbitrariness.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>3. Intersectionality Can Matter</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; being perceived to be part of two categories can cause different treatment/perceptions than the sum of the effects of each category alone (i.e., there is non-linearity). A Chinese woman&#8217;s experience isn&#8217;t just Chinese experience + female experience.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>4. Truth Is Elusive</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; many assumptions are baked into our interpretations. The truth is incredibly complex; epistemic modesty is warranted. Many have attempted to (or claimed to) use &#8220;science,&#8221; &#8220;objectivity,&#8221; or &#8220;rationality&#8221; yet have come to conclusions that were incorrect and harmful.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>5. Values Differ</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; it&#8217;s very hard to argue in a principled way that one set of common intrinsic values is superior to another. For instance, if one culture values honesty and loyalty more than other values, and another values freedom and happiness instead, who&#8217;s to say one of those cultures is &#8220;right&#8221;?</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>6. Word Choice Can Have Consequences&nbsp;</strong>&#8211; for instance, suppose person P takes action X, and person Q dies. It matters if society calls that action &#8220;murder,&#8221; &#8220;manslaughter,&#8221; or &#8220;an accident.&#8221; Beyond legal questions, it matters socially (for the victim&#8217;s family and the perpetrator).</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>7. Universals are Rare</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; people claim to find universals (in economies, societies, individual psychology), yet almost none of them stand up to scrutiny as being actually universal. Truth turns out to be contextual with lots of variation. Even our theories of physics get supplanted.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>8. Normal Is Not Better</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; what&#8217;s &#8220;normal&#8221; is often considered superior, and yet normal in one place and time may be weird in another. Much of human behavior is trying to fit in/be normal/be in fashion, which can help you to be liked, but normal is in flux and is not inherently better.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>9. Art Is Arbitrary</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; stories tend to be linear and to follow the hero&#8217;s journey, architecture has a certain look based on location, and paintings in one era tend to be in a similar style to each other. But stories, art, etc., can still be compelling when fragmented, non-linear, convention-violating, or subversive. A much broader range of things can produce the effects of art than the limited array we usually see created.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>10. Our Qualia are Unique&nbsp;</strong>&#8211; it is genuinely extremely hard to know what it&#8217;s like to be another person or to have had their experiences. We tend to overestimate our ability to relate. Those who have had an experience often do have unique information critical for understanding it.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>11. The Oppressed Should Be Helped</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; some people continue to be oppressed, and those who are should obviously be helped. It&#8217;s important to remind ourselves of this oppression and try to stop it.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>12. Context Often Matters&nbsp;</strong>&#8211; knowing who was saying something, what point in history they were saying it, who the audience was, the history of people saying similar things, and so on, can substantially change the meaning of what was said.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><strong>13. Some Things Are Said Without Being Said</strong>&nbsp;&#8211; meaning can be implied without saying something directly (e.g., through dog whistles, euphemisms, and by hinting at something). Even the omission of an idea that one would expect to have been said can imply a meaning.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">The elements I listed above related to postmodernism are those that I find most helpful or useful. On the other hand, while I&#8217;m far from an expert on the topic, my perspective is that a number of aspects of postmodernist thought are quite unhelpful or mistaken.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Here is what I most dislike about the postmodern way of thinking (and related ways of thinking, like through the lens of critical theory):</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">1. It can ignore genuine progress made towards truth and a better society.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">2. It can assume that word usage/language choices are more powerful than they are.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">3. It can deny useful categories.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">4. It can be self-undermining (if you apply its critiques to itself).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">5. It&#8217;s not (I think) that effective at changing the problems it points out (since its proposed solutions to these problems seem, in my opinion, unlikely to achieve their own aims).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">6. It can overemphasize the importance of certain problems over other equally or more important ones.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">7. It uses obscure language/complex sentence structure that makes it confusing or even impenetrable.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">8. It can be overly cynical about society and human nature.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">9. It can seem to be in denial that many valuable things were discovered using reason, rational thinking, science, etc., and some of these have greatly improved people&#8217;s lives.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">10. It can view society through too much of a zero-sum lens, not sufficiently acknowledging the importance of the many opportunities for positive-sum interactions.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">11. It can overemphasize the value of information gained from the personal experience of individuals relative to aggregate information and scientific evidence.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">12. It can treat large groups as monoliths, as though there really is an &#8220;X&#8221; perspective (for some large group, X).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">13. It sometimes uses non-standard definitions for common words in a way that leads people to draw confused conclusions (assuming the conclusion applies to the common-sense meaning when it only applies to the non-standard one).</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">14. It can sometimes come across as idealizing those who are oppressed, creating weird incentives for some people to emphasize (or, in extreme cases, exaggerate) the oppression they experience in order to gain social points, or it can even create competition over who is more oppressed.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">15. It can act as though feelings are facts, and that person A being upset by person B&#8217;s actions or words implies that A was wronged by B.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">16. It doesn&#8217;t do a good job of summarizing itself, meaning that it can take a large time investment to begin to have a sense of what it even is.</p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">17. It can fall into moral relativism and so runs the risk of being too reluctant to condemn harmful cultural practices of some societies (e.g., a practice of sometimes killing people for having premarital sex).</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Overall, while I think that postmodern thinking contains some important ideas, I also believe that reliance on it tends to make things more confused rather than less and that many of its proposed methods and solutions don&#8217;t stand up well to scrutiny.</p>



<hr class="wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity"/>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><em>This piece was first written on March 29, 2021, and first appeared on this site on July 2, 2023.</em></p>
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		<title>Eight common, slick-sounding claims that I think are misleading &#8211; and their clunky alternatives</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2018/11/eight-common-slick-sounding-claims-that-i-think-are-misleading-and-their-clunky-alternatives/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2018 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Essays]]></category>
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					<description><![CDATA[Written: November 3, 2018 &#124; Released: July 23, 2021 Here are eight common and slick-sounding claims that I think are misleading, along with a very clunky alternative for each that I think is truer and more useful: &#8220;You&#8217;ll regret the things you didn&#8217;t do more than the things you did&#8221; -&#62; don&#8217;t try to minimize [&#8230;]]]></description>
										<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p class="wp-block-paragraph"><em>Written: November 3, 2018 | Released: July 23, 2021</em></p>



<p class="wp-block-paragraph">Here are eight common and slick-sounding claims that I think are misleading, along with a very clunky alternative for each that I think is truer and more useful:</p>



<ol class="wp-block-list"><li>&#8220;You&#8217;ll regret the things you didn&#8217;t do more than the things you did&#8221; -&gt; don&#8217;t try to minimize the amount of regret you&#8217;ll have &#8211; try to maximize the total amount of the things that you value.</li><li>&#8220;Opposites attract&#8221; -&gt; birds of a feather flock together (in fact, only a few types of opposites actually attract).</li><li>&#8220;Don&#8217;t let fear stop you&#8221; -&gt; don&#8217;t let fear stop you when you&#8217;re afraid of doing valuable things that aren&#8217;t actually risky, and in those cases, try to ignore your fear and act in spite of it even though it may feel extremely shitty to do so.</li><li>&#8220;Trust your emotions&#8221; -&gt; your emotions signal useful information about your needs and your beliefs about the world, so it&#8217;s really important to learn to notice them and understand what they are telling you…but don&#8217;t assume your emotions accurately reflect reality either, since they sometimes are much stronger than reality warrants (e.g., excessive fear of something that&#8217;s totally safe), or are the result of pattern recognition gone haywire (e.g., you get a bad feeling about someone because they have irrelevant similarities to another person who hurt you), or are impacted by random factors (e.g., feeling anger that&#8217;s caused more by hunger than by what the anger is fixated on).</li><li>&#8220;Believe your intuition&#8221; -&gt; believe your intuition in situations you&#8217;ve experienced many times before, where there was enough feedback on how well your predictions performed to allow your intuition to have become honed (e.g., when interpreting the behavior of people you know well in common social situations, but not when evaluating if a complex philosophical claim is likely to be true), as well as in cases where there is no time to think things through carefully (e.g., if a yelling person leaps out in front of you and your intuition tells you that you&#8217;re in danger).</li><li>&#8220;Love happens when you&#8217;re not looking for it&#8221; -&gt; desperation tends to be unattractive and can lead to bad, rash romantic decision making, so be cautious if you&#8217;re feeling that way and consider working on those feelings before seeking a partner, but on the other hand, the more people you meet, the more likely you are to meet someone you hit it off with, and that&#8217;s true even if you feel desperate</li><li>&#8220;Absence makes the heart grow fonder&#8221; -&gt; absence often makes the heart grow fonder…at first…and then, &#8220;out of sight, out of mind,&#8221; because eventually you get used to life without that person and it gets easier to be away from them and move on.</li><li>&#8220;Everything that happens happens for the best&#8221; -&gt; bad things happen frequently that are truly not good, but you can often learn useful things from bad experiences, and it&#8217;s really worthwhile to actively look for what those learnings are. Plus, it is often possible to think differently about bad things in such a way as to reduce the suffering that they cause, and it&#8217;s often extremely worthwhile to do so when you can without deceiving yourself (e.g., remembering all the other things you are grateful for, or noticing the beneficial silver linings that resulted from the bad thing).</li></ol>



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