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	Comments on: Importance Hacking: a major (yet rarely-discussed) problem in science	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Bharat		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35638</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bharat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Mar 2023 05:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35638</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Too true -- this leads to some hyperinflated claims in science but there are at least some checks and balances to &quot;making up facts.&quot; However,  it is truly rampant in the social sciences and especially economics where the payoff to creating an ideologically driven &quot;fact&quot; through spurious statistics  is very high.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too true &#8212; this leads to some hyperinflated claims in science but there are at least some checks and balances to &#8220;making up facts.&#8221; However,  it is truly rampant in the social sciences and especially economics where the payoff to creating an ideologically driven &#8220;fact&#8221; through spurious statistics  is very high.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Spencer		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35392</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2023 18:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35392</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279&quot;&gt;Peter Gerdes&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi Peter - I claim these do very often get by peer review (that&#039;s precisely why people engage in this behavior - if it didn&#039;t get through peer review, there would be little point). Additionally, this behavior, I believe, does distort scientific knowledge because upon a cursory reading of these papers (or, worse still, just reading the abstract) they often seem like they showed something they didn&#039;t show (because if they didn&#039;t seem that they showed something they didn&#039;t show, it would be obvious that they showed something of little to no value). In that regard, it is much like when p-hacking occurs (resulting in false positives) because it leads the reader to a false impression about what&#039;s true.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279">Peter Gerdes</a>.</p>
<p>Hi Peter &#8211; I claim these do very often get by peer review (that&#8217;s precisely why people engage in this behavior &#8211; if it didn&#8217;t get through peer review, there would be little point). Additionally, this behavior, I believe, does distort scientific knowledge because upon a cursory reading of these papers (or, worse still, just reading the abstract) they often seem like they showed something they didn&#8217;t show (because if they didn&#8217;t seem that they showed something they didn&#8217;t show, it would be obvious that they showed something of little to no value). In that regard, it is much like when p-hacking occurs (resulting in false positives) because it leads the reader to a false impression about what&#8217;s true.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Spencer		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35391</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Spencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2023 17:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35391</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35281&quot;&gt;Peter Gerdes&lt;/a&gt;.

I really became aware of Importance Hacking occurring as I worked on replicating papers. When replicating, we rebuild the study from scratch in all its details, engaging with the exact wording of every question, the precise presentation of materials, etc., which is a much closer investigation than reviewers typically do. It is far easier to spot Importance Hacking when replicating than when reviewing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35281">Peter Gerdes</a>.</p>
<p>I really became aware of Importance Hacking occurring as I worked on replicating papers. When replicating, we rebuild the study from scratch in all its details, engaging with the exact wording of every question, the precise presentation of materials, etc., which is a much closer investigation than reviewers typically do. It is far easier to spot Importance Hacking when replicating than when reviewing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter Gerdes		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35281</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Gerdes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2023 06:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35281</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279&quot;&gt;Peter Gerdes&lt;/a&gt;.

Besides, I don&#039;t see how it can both be true that this importance hacking is tricking the reviewers into giving priority to the wrong papers but yet you can see through it to notice it&#039;s happening so much as to threaten science.

We can discover p-hacking that the reviewers couldn&#039;t notice because of replication failures and by looking at statistical properties of many articles.  The only way to see this problem is to observe the same information the reviewers saw and second guess them.  So how can you distinguish between this and the theory that they do see through it and it&#039;s just that there is a fair bit of disagreement about what&#039;s important/publishable?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279">Peter Gerdes</a>.</p>
<p>Besides, I don&#8217;t see how it can both be true that this importance hacking is tricking the reviewers into giving priority to the wrong papers but yet you can see through it to notice it&#8217;s happening so much as to threaten science.</p>
<p>We can discover p-hacking that the reviewers couldn&#8217;t notice because of replication failures and by looking at statistical properties of many articles.  The only way to see this problem is to observe the same information the reviewers saw and second guess them.  So how can you distinguish between this and the theory that they do see through it and it&#8217;s just that there is a fair bit of disagreement about what&#8217;s important/publishable?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter Gerdes		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35280</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Gerdes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2023 06:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35280</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279&quot;&gt;Peter Gerdes&lt;/a&gt;.

Besides, I&#039;m not seeing the alternative.  If you try to say that scientists shouldn&#039;t make their work sound as interesting/important/etc.. as possible how could you possibly create an enforceable rule?  Whoever was willing to push the line the most would have an advantage.

At least if everyone tries to make their work sound as important as possible then it&#039;s all competing on a fairly level playing field.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279">Peter Gerdes</a>.</p>
<p>Besides, I&#8217;m not seeing the alternative.  If you try to say that scientists shouldn&#8217;t make their work sound as interesting/important/etc.. as possible how could you possibly create an enforceable rule?  Whoever was willing to push the line the most would have an advantage.</p>
<p>At least if everyone tries to make their work sound as important as possible then it&#8217;s all competing on a fairly level playing field.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter Gerdes		</title>
		<link>https://www.spencergreenberg.com/2022/12/importance-hacking-a-major-yet-rarely-discussed-problem-in-science/#comment-35279</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Gerdes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2023 05:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.spencergreenberg.com/?p=3057#comment-35279</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[While it&#039;s not great, I&#039;m not really seeing how this is a major threat to science.  It doesn&#039;t seem like these techniques are beyond the capability of peer-review to manage (i.e. my sense is that importance hacking hasn&#039;t meant the genuinely important papers aren&#039;t most likely to get into the best journals...though it&#039;s always very noisey) and even if/when they are I don&#039;t see how they corrupt the scientific record (it&#039;s akin to lawyers on both sides phrasing their arguments in the most persuasive terms rather than the most objective ones).

What&#039;s troubling about p-hacking is that it creates a false/misleading scientific record.  The problem here seems to be, at worst, that we might not promote the people with the most important results but that&#039;s largely a matter of luck anyway. 

Even your examples don&#039;t really seem that bad.  Maybe grit is really just conscientiousness (I suspect it is).  But maybe it&#039;s not and that possibility makes it interesting and even if not it&#039;s still good work.  Yah, sometimes a significant result isn&#039;t actually meaningful in the real world but if the scientists reading the paper can&#039;t tell the difference the problem isn&#039;t importance hacking since they&#039;ll have the same issue interpreting their own data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it&#8217;s not great, I&#8217;m not really seeing how this is a major threat to science.  It doesn&#8217;t seem like these techniques are beyond the capability of peer-review to manage (i.e. my sense is that importance hacking hasn&#8217;t meant the genuinely important papers aren&#8217;t most likely to get into the best journals&#8230;though it&#8217;s always very noisey) and even if/when they are I don&#8217;t see how they corrupt the scientific record (it&#8217;s akin to lawyers on both sides phrasing their arguments in the most persuasive terms rather than the most objective ones).</p>
<p>What&#8217;s troubling about p-hacking is that it creates a false/misleading scientific record.  The problem here seems to be, at worst, that we might not promote the people with the most important results but that&#8217;s largely a matter of luck anyway. </p>
<p>Even your examples don&#8217;t really seem that bad.  Maybe grit is really just conscientiousness (I suspect it is).  But maybe it&#8217;s not and that possibility makes it interesting and even if not it&#8217;s still good work.  Yah, sometimes a significant result isn&#8217;t actually meaningful in the real world but if the scientists reading the paper can&#8217;t tell the difference the problem isn&#8217;t importance hacking since they&#8217;ll have the same issue interpreting their own data.</p>
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